@ultimape, thoughts?
https://twitter.com/dlx5dlx6/status/1398723853866737666
https://twitter.com/Grimhood/status/1398706856105709570

I've yet to read anything about that space by dlx5dlx6 that I didn't like.

I actually have a mini thread in response to Grimhood talking about this in the past.
https://twitter.com/ultimape/status/1271292872763904001

TL;DR: oxalates are normally bad, but the ability of the body to metabolize them is complex, and may serve a bunch of purposes related to immune function.


I struggle with oxalate foods. All the pro-carnivore pro-meat types tend to avoid them like the plague because it cause GI inflammation. I think this is for a good reason. However, no one talks about how you can just ferment the food externally to get rid of them. I handle kimchi just fine.

So there is def a problem in that space, but I'm not a fan of the existing discourse around it.

I think a lot of the symptoms of autism I personally face are driven by dietary issues tied to GI 'comorbidities'. Even my sensory processing issues are reduced to barely a nuisances when my gut isn't having trouble.
Researching that space of ideas is the origin of this joke:
https://twitter.com/ultimape/status/1296116866075828225


I agree this phenomena are likely causing many instances of chronic fatigue by the same measure, either directly thru immune activation just simply draining the body of energy over time, or indirectly via poor absorption in the gut.

Natural oxalate production oddities are also tied weirdly to fat metabolism https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15253722/ that suggests this space is inter-related.

My hunch here is that natural oxalate production may be one of the triggers for clearing out the GI tract to prepare for hibernation states.

Killing gut bacteria thru inflammation leads to odd responses in the GI tract regarding food absorption. I seem particularly prone to it due to crohn's genes / IBS. These have huge knock-on effects on absorption of nutrients, and given serotonin itself is one of the chemicals that is involved in waking up, having lower production in the gut (90% of the body's serotonin is made by the gut!), might be a huge lever.

My mom's fibromyalgia symptoms lessen when she started eating better and it looked to be due to this process https://www.verywellhealth.com/serotonin-in-fibromyalgia-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-716052


Grazing animals also suffer from this problem, tho they are much better able to deal with higher levels of oxalates simply because they are more effective at digesting them with their gut bacteria.

A lot of older methods of fermentation seemed to have been done using cow stomachs, and may have been the origin of cheese (using cow stomach to store milk). I've been trying to trace this in more detail. I find it fascinating that many carnivorous animals will also eat the contents of the stomach of the grazing animal.

Was shared this recently, but had previously suspected something like it involved in early cooking methods.

"Have you seen this https://earthwormexpress.com/the-prehistory-of-food/in-prehistory-we-ate-fermented-foods/ many cultures used to eat fermented meat, or drink directly from the stomachs of deer."
https://merveilles.town/@faun/106790734875397582

Shows up in how wine was made classically in a flask made from a skin of an animal. For some weird reason wine will eat thru the skin unless the wine is aged in the skin itself. Something seems to cause a hide-tanning like reaction. Easy to see how we'd have discovered that by accident by storing grapes in leather sacks.


Doesn't boiling vegetables also reduce oxalates, albeit not as much as fermentation?

Yeah, by quite a bit. The cooking method really matters. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15826055/

But that has other problems with actually losing other things you do want, and can impact fats quite a bit.

Fermentation is a better alternative to boiling IMHO because it tends to produce more healthy SCFAs and vitamins vs destroy them.

Lots of traditional cooking methods use the soup base/broth and many breads were meant to absorb the broths. Tons of minerals are lost into the broth and are super important (especially if your GI tract has trouble with absorbing them anyway).
https://twitter.com/ultimape/status/1425751312881307656

Fermentation has an added benefit of inoculating your GI tract with bacteria that can eat the oxalates your body is producing on it's own.

Oxalates & Autism? Huh?