UltimApe Reddit Comment Summary 2019-09…

IN MICE but microbiome is altered by UV exposure independently of vitamin D https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6116187/

Independently of (measured levels of) vitamin D? I'll have to read that, but if the Vitamin D is being used up or measured weirdly in the blood then it could be giving bad readings.

I am now imagining a mouse being ground up into a slurry and sampling vitamin d concentration by weight, like how we measure lead.
video on that: https://invidio.us/watch?v=XZUgPozpuF8

I wonder how much vitamin D enters the blood vs being used by cells or being stored in fat or another area that isn't directly measurable.

Just to be clear, this is not safe for the mouse.

This study has strange results on vitamin d as well. https://www.spring.org.uk/2019/08/vitamin-diabetes.php

Apparently in some people ultra high doses of vitamin d act as some kind of insulin regulator. But it doesn't seem to help everybody and doesn't work for long-term type 2 diabetes. The strange mixed response to this makes me wonder if they're assuming the wrong thing and that it's not something in the muscles necessarily, but something in the gut. I've long suspected that certain cases of diabetes or metabolic syndrome are gut dysbiosis, which would explain why only certain people get a response and why full type 2 diabetes doesn't get any.

There's all sorts of strange reports around vitamin d affecting the intestines in unexpected ways. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6116667/

Immuno regulator is going to regulate the immune system. And the microbes are part of that.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28443718/ :thinksphere:

It'd be really funny if the things that I've been doing to improve my brain by way of affecting and cholesterol metabolism actual act on the same microbes. there's tons and tons of studies on this vitamin d association with insulin Management in the past 2 years. I can't find anything that has a smoking gun although a lot of association findings.

Time to look up vitamin d in ants and bears.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3121767/ there's a weird process in bears apparently where vitamin D3 turns into vitamin D2. Now the next question is is this happening for the same reason as how bears are able to hibernate because they're microbes are recycling nitrogen instead of having them need to pee. Or is this a process happening in the bone/fat cells.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/food/vitamin-d.html this says that vitamin D2 is synthetic. If so does that mean that we're producing it with microbes? I wonder what microbes or what process actually causes this. I would presume that however we make D2 is modeled after how the body makes D2.

It also mentions that it uses cholesterol to actually produce the three in the sun. so that my body doesn't produce cholesterol correctly suggests that I might be acting on vitamin D3 production downstream without even realizing it.

And apparently every cell in our body has a vitamin d receptor? That's really strange. I wonder if it can pass through the blood-brain barrier.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17002947/ apparently there's a theory that in lizards excess vitamin d acts as a costly signal for mates. the cholesterol (?) that would normally go to vitamin d production ends up going to their scent glands.

I also remember something strange about turtles and the sun helping them build their shells. This suggests I need to go and figure out how far back this vitamin d process is in terms of evolutionary origin, or figure out if it's something that multiple species have converged upon because of vitamin d reactivity to the sun.

Incedently, it looks like I'm buying powdered ants next month, they're loaded in all sorts of great vitamins.

Also sleep is a lizard brain thing!
Wow it's all coming together
Sunbathing is more lindy than I thought

What if it's not an issue of needing more light, but in interaction between light and available cholesterol to produce vitamin d to begin with.

Holy shit I need to get wearable sun sensor ASAP

theoretically people missing their gallbladder may have less of a response to vitamin d because their body is not able to process cholesterol as effectively, because they wouldn't be able to have as much bile acid on demand to process the fats and turn into cholesterol. as I recall that whole process is driven by bacteria. that would explain the strange hunch I had about the impact of vitamin d in diabetes.

So is insulin acting as a microbial regulator, being affected indirectly by vitamin d partially because vitamin d is part of how the gut bacteria produce serotonin, which is a large-scale regulatory force in the gut. and also ties all this to depression symptoms in the brain if we assume that the gut-brain axis is all operating under a chemosensor effect.

Time to look up how bees integrate their circadian rhythm.

Homeostatic loops upon homeostatic loops and regulatory systems nested into each other like Russian dolls.

Dynamic metastability.


Theoretically I can actually get some meaningful data about this. If my research roll pans out, I might be able to dig into quantified self research more seriously, and actually be able to pay for blood tests, microbe tests, sun sensor and an activity sensor.

How is vitamin d impacting insulin regulation? I need to know that.

like specifics, what exactly is vitamin d doing to the gut metabolism of food that is creating a feedback loop triggering the pancreas?

They seem to think that vitamin d is doing something to the pancreas but research is scarce. I already have a model of how the pancreas is acting to regulate the immune system but I haven't fleshed it out really well. it's the current theories on how that operates aligns with mine then that tells me I'm in the right direction.






Found this fairly good review of vitamin d levels and a sort of controversy involved with it. https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/vitamin-d-whats-right-level-2016121910893
One of the highlights include, paraphrased "if vitamin d was so important why did we evolve to avoid sunburns in areas with high amounts of sun?"

I think that line is complete bullshit, but it does raise an interesting point it suggests that people who have darker skin might be predisposed toward having more microbes that produce vitamin D. I already know that darker skin seems to change effectiveness of we measure lipids in the blood. If this is a co-adaptation of some kind that helps produce more vitamin d... Well let's just say that he could be saying the truth but also a complete idiot at the same time.

another paraphrasing: "if my pet theory is wrong then how come evolution makes trade-offs under aggressive environments to maximize the chances of giving birth?" Makes that thing sound a little more ridiculous cuz that's basically what he's trying to say.

I really should collect together my articles on cholesterol measurement weirdness.

if vitamin d was so important how come countries with less light during the winter eat a higher cholesterol diet in order to produce more of it from their skin? /s

I can make up bullshit that's more accurate on the spot then that line of reasoning from the other article.

The underlying cause of the neutrophilia was sunburn. The sunburn recovered and her neutrophil count spontaneously normalised. Conclusion. Clinicians can add sunburn to the broad differential diagnosis of neutrophilia.

There are a bunch of reports that suggest that vitamin d deficiency can lead to miscarriages. Oddly a couple of them suggest that it only seems to impact your second pregnancy. That's really strange.
That other article supposition to that there are a lot of vitamin d rich foods.
But if you actually go and look at the diets of people with very dark skin who presumably have trouble creating vitamin d... well it turns out their diet is extremely high in vitamin d. Imagine that.


did I just figure out what causes miscarriage in low vitamin d because I was bullshiting about some guy's awful take on evolutionary biology?

<expletive removed>


( N=50 )

After using vit D supplementation for 6 weeks, WT, WC, and body mass index (BMI) were decreased significantly and serum vit D increased significantly compared to control group (P < 0.001). Other factors including TC, TG, LDL-c, HDL-c, FBS, CRP, ins, IR, and waist to hip ratio (WHR) did not change significantly (P > 0.05).

That's weird


so you're telling me, if I get this straight... This chemical seems to reduce inflammation on the surface of the skin when irritated.
and that same chemical seems to reduce diarrhea caused by inflammation on the surface of the intestine? which is because technically intstines just another area of skin that happens to the inside of the body. Because we're just walking donuts.

Yes yes I think I'm saying that.

I haven't read any of these things (yet) BTW except perhaps the important bits about the conclusion. I'm literally just pulling these out of my ass.


a strange result of my thinking, one that I can't actually find answers to. Is that theoretically a series of severe sunburns during the first 20 weeks of pregnancy may induce miscarriage in the same way as excessive amounts of liver and pineapple and potato etc. My thinking being the too much of a good thing (production of excess vitamin D) ends up causing an immune system response due to the high levels of inflammation thus killing the baby before it has a chance to fully acclimate. I don't know what it is about 20 weeks, I'm still learning about pregnancy in general.

I do know that it seems to be immune system related, with that time period being the easiest for the body to miscarriage when affronted by immune weirdness or starvation.

Vitamin d would arguably reduce this effect for the same reasons I've laid out.

I think I may accidentally be figuring out miscarrages. :thinksphere:

My way of thinking also seems to be working well to figure out how to cause pregnancy. I flipped my mental model around and reasoned that certain drugs ought to improve fertility. Bing bang bong st. John's Wort. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1884186/

It is amazing how much humans immune system impact stuff like fertility and successful gestation.

I think I might start a thread on Twitter about St John's Wort.

"eating SJW might improve the chances of conceiving a child!"

Eat the sun.